Comments on: Toko Newsletter http://fasterskier.com/2009/12/toko-newsletter/ FasterSkier: Cross-Country Ski, Biathlon, and Nordic Combined Racing, Training and News Thu, 09 Feb 2012 03:10:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: ianharveyhttp://fasterskier.com/2009/12/toko-newsletter/comment-page-1/#comment-1108 ianharvey Wed, 23 Dec 2009 15:39:51 +0000 http://fasterskier.com/?p=68672#comment-1108 I don't know of a single pair of skis that has been damaged in a good hotbox (read: with ventilation and an accurate thermostat or temperature read) at 62C for 6-8 hours. Let's use a manufacturers Thermo Bag (there are a few that make them) and not a home made box. Is there anyone who has damaged a ski in this situation? Again, NOT a homemade box, but a professional grade box. I myself have done every brand of ski and very many times. At longer times and/or hotter temps, we damaged a ton of old skis and test skis (mine). I don't know of a single pair damaged at 62C. A prominent waxer in North America was strongly advocating far cooler temperatures some time ago. He wrote to me and told me he was getting good results with his apparatus and with temps more like warm than hot. I told him that the wax couldn't be going in the base at those temps. He disagreed and said that it had been. Later I got an email from him that his homemade box had completely wrong temperature readings and his temps were very close to mine. I think this is what started the "cold" hot box movement although he was using temps similar to mine the whole time. Now I know there are others who use a colder box, but it makes no sense. It all came from this other guy who was using a "hot" hot box the whole time. Have a good one in any case, Ian I don’t know of a single pair of skis that has been damaged in a good hotbox (read: with ventilation and an accurate thermostat or temperature read) at 62C for 6-8 hours. Let’s use a manufacturers Thermo Bag (there are a few that make them) and not a home made box. Is there anyone who has damaged a ski in this situation? Again, NOT a homemade box, but a professional grade box. I myself have done every brand of ski and very many times. At longer times and/or hotter temps, we damaged a ton of old skis and test skis (mine). I don’t know of a single pair damaged at 62C.

A prominent waxer in North America was strongly advocating far cooler temperatures some time ago. He wrote to me and told me he was getting good results with his apparatus and with temps more like warm than hot. I told him that the wax couldn’t be going in the base at those temps. He disagreed and said that it had been. Later I got an email from him that his homemade box had completely wrong temperature readings and his temps were very close to mine. I think this is what started the “cold” hot box movement although he was using temps similar to mine the whole time. Now I know there are others who use a colder box, but it makes no sense. It all came from this other guy who was using a “hot” hot box the whole time.

Have a good one in any case,
Ian

]]> By: OldManWinterhttp://fasterskier.com/2009/12/toko-newsletter/comment-page-1/#comment-1104 OldManWinter Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:19:31 +0000 http://fasterskier.com/?p=68672#comment-1104 Ian - Np, we can disagree without being disagreeable. I will concur that the wax needs somewhere to go, but from my experience the base doesn't need to be in a 143F chamber for it to get there. Two days ago, the bases of a pair of my test skis peeled away at temps below that. Sure, they were foam-core rock skis, but given that experience I'm surely not running the family's Madshus thru at that temp anytime soon. Each of the local hotbox services has a disclaimer connected with their service; presumably for a good reason. The problem is that if a ski delaminates you might not realize it right away, and these things never fail near the parking lot. The internet is loaded with horror stories of this nature. Caveat emptor, and thanks for the 2nd opinion but I'm still keeping my temperature setting where it's at. Ian – Np, we can disagree without being disagreeable. I will concur that the wax needs somewhere to go, but from my experience the base doesn’t need to be in a 143F chamber for it to get there. Two days ago, the bases of a pair of my test skis peeled away at temps below that. Sure, they were foam-core rock skis, but given that experience I’m surely not running the family’s Madshus thru at that temp anytime soon. Each of the local hotbox services has a disclaimer connected with their service; presumably for a good reason. The problem is that if a ski delaminates you might not realize it right away, and these things never fail near the parking lot. The internet is loaded with horror stories of this nature. Caveat emptor, and thanks for the 2nd opinion but I’m still keeping my temperature setting where it’s at.

]]> By: ianharveyhttp://fasterskier.com/2009/12/toko-newsletter/comment-page-1/#comment-1103 ianharvey Tue, 22 Dec 2009 20:16:56 +0000 http://fasterskier.com/?p=68672#comment-1103 The purpose is not simply to "melt yellow wax" as you put it. The ski needs to heat up enough for the base to expand so the wax has somewhere to go. The warmer the ski base, the more wax goes into it. Warmth of the ski base is a function of time and temperature not just temperature. 6-8 hours at 62c has shown to do no damage to skis at all unless you are using a box with poor air circulation inside as then you get hot spots. A ventilator of some kind is necessary. In responding, my goal isn't to debate. I'm responding so others aren't lead astray by your remarks. The purpose is not simply to “melt yellow wax” as you put it. The ski needs to heat up enough for the base to expand so the wax has somewhere to go. The warmer the ski base, the more wax goes into it. Warmth of the ski base is a function of time and temperature not just temperature. 6-8 hours at 62c has shown to do no damage to skis at all unless you are using a box with poor air circulation inside as then you get hot spots. A ventilator of some kind is necessary.

In responding, my goal isn’t to debate. I’m responding so others aren’t lead astray by your remarks.

]]> By: OldManWinterhttp://fasterskier.com/2009/12/toko-newsletter/comment-page-1/#comment-1102 OldManWinter Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:58:30 +0000 http://fasterskier.com/?p=68672#comment-1102 143 degrees F to melt a yellow wax? Better your skis than mine. Personally, I am not aware of any ski service that runs a hot box > 60C for fear of ski damage. In my unit, I can reliably keep CH10 molten at 117F, and completely liquid at 120F. 143 degrees F to melt a yellow wax? Better your skis than mine. Personally, I am not aware of any ski service that runs a hot box > 60C for fear of ski damage. In my unit, I can reliably keep CH10 molten at 117F, and completely liquid at 120F.

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